Recently at the Inn of the Erudite Redneck, a not so friendly game of darts has been played, and as things look now, the game may yet continue. First I'm a bigot, and hatemonger, then I'm not-- it's all a misunderstanding. What is not a misunderstanding, however, is that a man who calls himself Christian seems incapable of taking what is quite simple... that Jesus is THE way, THE truth, and THE life, and that no one comes to the Father except through Him [Jesus], as Gospel.
In an effort to point out that unless Muslims come to Christ for salvation, they will in no wise enter in, what is simple truth becomes bigotry and hatremongery in the ears of someone who should know better... someone who obviously sees in every conservative, fundamentalist, Christian a narrow-minded bigot capable of seeing value in the White race alone-- in Christianity alone. I suggest here and now that this person- who is NOT a conservative, fundamentalist Christian --is likewise narrow-minded and can see little if any good in anyone who would take the Bible for what it says, where it says it. Context is King, is it not? And yet this someone seems either unwilling or incapable of recognizing what I bent over backward to say at the Inn of the Erudite Redneck as an honest expression of what GOD has to say on the matter of other faiths being inferior and incapable of paying man's debt of sin.
Graciously, I took a second look at some of the things I had posted, namely those comments posted while my ire was stacked high with contents under pressure... all thanks to my less than gracious detractor. So be it.
The rules of the game suddenly shifted. The host and proprietor at the Inn of the Erudite Redneck sought to offer what I deemed a gracious compromise, especially after my opponent continued throwing darts. The article he linked to, God Shows No Partiality, turned out to be, surprisingly, a very well-rounded and interesting piece with but one serious objection. From my "Piece of the Elephant"-- read the article --there is a glaring inconsistency between what the Reverend Frank Logue spends several pages outlining and this one statement...
While other paths might lead to God, Christianity holds that Jesus is the way to know God best.
On the surface there's not much to object to here, especially after such statements as..
Many religions contain truth...
... which is true, but Rev Logue loses me and many others with the idea that every religion is 'valid' in some measure, great or small. This is simply not true.
He says that for himself, "Obviously I believe that Christianity has it right." But if Christianity has it right, and Jesus IS the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father but [through Him], then the idea that Christianity is the way to know God best, is predicated upon the the idea that these other religions are a way to know God as well, though imperfectly. And this is beyond simply wrong.
Consider Solomon's idolatry...
Solomon was by no means the keeper of the religion of Israel; for he married many foreign wives, in addition to the daughter of the Pharaoh there were women of the Moabites, Ammonites, Edomites, Sidonines, and Hittities, when Solomon became old his wives turned his heart away from Jehovah, and he worshipped other gods. This led him to committing idolatry and condoning the idolatry of his wives.
That Solomon found grace with God in the end, is not at issue here, but God's response to Solomon's idolatry is...
And the LORD was angry with Solomon, because his heart was turned from the LORD God of Israel, which had appeared unto him twice, and had commanded him concerning this thing that he should not go after other gods: but kept not that which the LORD commanded. Wherefore the LORD said unto Solomon, Forasmuch as this is done of thee, and thou hast not kept my covenant and my statutes, which I have commanded thee, I will surely rend the kingdom from thee and will give it to thy servant. Notwithstanding in thy days I will not do it for David thy father's sake: but I will rend it out of the hand of thy son. Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant's sake, and for Jerusalem's sake which I have chosen.
1 Kings 11:9-13
I don't object to any statement that says other religions have something of value to offer the world, however great or small, but based on what God Himself has had to say on 'other' gods, and the evilness of worshiping them, for anyone then to say that "Jesus is the way to know God best," is to suggest that one can know God, albeit less than best, but still get a glimpse of who He is in 'other' religions.... other gods.
This is simply not true. And it doesn't make me a bigot to say as much. Were I to turn my nose up at the practitioners of other religions and think myself superior to them, that would make me a bigot... and worse. But to simply reiterate what God has already said... ?
I do not deny that God has placed His law in every human heart, for even a child instinctively knows that lying is wrong; that taking what is not theirs is wrong. The same is true of peoples who have never heard the name of Jesus. And God has a system in place already to deal with peoples who have never heard the name of Jesus. And that is The Law.
That may sound unjust-- it sounds awfully harsh to me, but consider those who went to Abraham's Bosom... that other compartment of hell, namely paradise. They were stuck there until the final resurrection unless Jesus died and descended into hell [Abraham's Bosom] and preached to those who would hear and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I have to lovingly assume that God has made a way for these others to hear the Gospel and accept the gift of salvation that the blood of God Incarnate, Jesus of Nazareth, lovingly provided.
For Muslims today, there are missionaries and evangelists to tell them the Good News. I have to believe that the truth is made available to each and every one, because short of faith in Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins they cannot enter Heaven. That is what God says. It is what Jesus says. It is what the Bible says.
And it's what I repeat here and now.
If only protestant christianity is the true religion, then what of the fate of all the Catholics that died before the reformation? All the Asians and Australian aboriginees that died before the "true" faith was spread to all the corners of the globe?
The fact that the bible stops all questioning or searching in your faith astounds me.
Don't you mean..."brothel of the REVEREND Redneck"????!!!!!
I don't go there anymore. I don't go to titty-bars either.
The insane abuse of the fairer Sex/ideology at those places marks them has havens of purest evil.
Before the beginning there was the Eternal Council of God, or as A Body of Doctrinal Divinity, Book 2 -- Chaper 6 calls it, "The Everlasting Council Between the Three Divine Persons, Concerning the Salvation of Men." To simplify, the Council went a little like this:
Jehovah Father: "I want to create Man that the area about my throne might be filled with worshipers-- Children I will adore, and who will in turn adore me."
Jehovah Son: "You know they'll only rebel; at the very beginning no less!"
Jehovah Father: "Yes. So one of us will have to pay the penalty of their sin, because we can't allow it to glory in our presence here-- We are Holy."
Jehovah Spirit: "I can place our essence in human flesh, then we can live among them, and die to pay for their sins."
Jehovah Father: "But one of Us will have to leave Heaven..."
Jehovah Son: "I'll go Father, if you promise to raise me up after my death."
Jehovah Father: "And I promise to raise you up if you fulfill the mission and remain untainted by sin."
All 3 Jehovahs [in unison]: "Agreed."
So Jehovah Son came to Earth, via the power of the Holy Spirit, lived as a man, though fully God, preached and fulfilled all the things given to prophets-- and then some --to the nation he worked His plan through for some four-thousand years. He was rejected, and slain. And having justified the Law, was raised on the third day. Now God's plan to cleanse Man from all his unrighteousness is complete. And all Man has to do is believe on the sacrifice of Jehovah Son, Jesus of Nazareth, the Messiah, or 'Christ.'
While Jesus walked among His people, one thing He tried to express to them was the fact that, and as Bob Dylan once sang, "The times, they are a-changin'"
No longer would His focus be with one nation alone, but with ALL nations. Ideally, God would have wanted His son to be accepted as King and Messiah. Had this happened, He would have had an entire nation of believers to spread out into the world and bring all men to salvation through Christ Jesus. But this didn't happen. Jesus was left eleven Apostles, and an unknown number of Disciples numbering in the hundreds. All afraid, all mourning the loss of the Messiah, their Master-- their God.
And so it's taken a lot longer than God would have liked to get the Word out and call all to repentance who will accept.
And this appears to be a sticking point for some; that God has given to His son only those converts who WILL accept Him. It seems unjust and cruel to toss into the fire a piece of wood that might have been carved into lovely shapes.... had not cracks and disease ran throughout the length and breadth of it.
But Jesus tried to warn them of the changes soon to come...
In John 10:16 Jesus says...
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."
...One fold, one body of believers, and One Shepherd over them. No longer a distinction between Jew and Gentile; anyone can now come to the throne of Grace and find forgiveness. And entrance into Heaven.
There is only one true religion, and Christianity is that religion. Christianity is not defined by labels such as "Catholic" Presbyterian" or any number of other divisions within the body of Christ. No one is saved because they are Catholic, or Presbyterian, or Baptist, or whatever. They are saved because at some point in their life God called them to repentance and they turned away from their old life of sin and began walking in a new direction, their sins covered by the blood of their savior Jesus Christ.
As to all the Asians, Maoris, Aboriginal peoples who have died never hearing the name of Jesus, I thought that was fairly explained, as best as I was able, in the body of this post. Every man is born with the Law written on their hearts-- the Conscience; a word derived from Latin which means, "With" + "Knowledge". Simply put, we all sin knowing that what we've done is wrong. And it is that Law that will judge us in the Last Day, unless we are covered by the blood of a savior.
God provided a means by which men prior to the Crucifixion would have that chance to accept Jesus as there savior, and I have to believe that something still is in place. I don't know what that is, accept to say that, unless the blood of Jesus is applied to their sin they CANNOT enter Heaven.
How this applies to the Jew I cannot say. What I can say, however, is that God has placed blinders on their eyes; hardened their hearts like Pharaoh. But that's not to say something isn't in place for them as well. Some believe-- and I have no reason to doubt it --that they will be judged separately. The Bible already classifies TWO distinct judgments-- The Judgment Seat of Christ (for Believers), and the Great White Throne Judgment (for everyone else) --Why not a third for His chosen People?
But Jesus told them who His sheep were, and HOW He knew they were His.
John 10:4-5 "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers."
John 10:14 "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine."
John 10:26-30 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one."
For those who refuse to believe, Jesus has said, in effect, that they have chosen to follow another shepherd, a thief, who has come only to...
"...steal, and to kill, and to destroy" John 10:10
But Jesus said He has come...
"...that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly." John 10:10
When I accuse Islam, and Mormonism, and Jehovahs Witnesses, of being false religions, I say it because these religions are contrary to the Truth as revealed by Christ Himself.
But consider this. The enemy doesn't mind anyone sitting on a pew, singing hymns, and hearing sermons or lectures; not if it's a religion he fostered.
Satan is in the business of keeping the area around God's throne as empty as possible. His primary means of doing this is providing alternatives to the Truth. Do you want a Truth which allows for sexual promiscuity? He's got one for you. Want one where hard work will get you into heaven? He's got one for you. How about one that says all you have to do is be a good person? He's got that one covered too. The point is, for every personal god we establish in our hearts, Satan has already crafted a religion for it. His goal is to keep as many people out of heaven as possible. Even if it means allowing people to feel good about themselves, and pretending to worship God, on a pew, hymnal in hand, voice lifted toward heaven...
As for the other peoples of the world who have never heard the name of Jesus, I choose to trust that God, in His infinite mercy and wisdom, will judge these people fairly and righteously.
But let me make on final thought clear. I do not believe that ALL Catholics, Presbyterians, Baptists, Evangelicals, Unity, Mormons, Jehovahs' Witnesses are hell-bound. Only those who do not have the blood of Christ covering their sin.
The Shepherd is still out in world, calling together His flock. They will come from the four corners of the world; from every wind and nation and ideology.
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit."
John 3:7-8 [Jesus speaking to Nicodemus]
Ye must be born again.
The standard is different only in that the generation that survives the seven years of tribulation will all, as a nation, be converted and be saved. Every other generation prior to that one will be judged as every other gentile nation will be judged... as individuals for individual lives, and the works they performed throughout. The same is true for Shintoists, Falun Gongists, and Hindus.
I have not hardened my heart, though you obviously feel otherwise. I'm only speaking the truth of what the bible says. That obviously sounds harsh to you, and you seem to think I take pleasure in it, but this simply not true. Interestingly enough, however, God HAS hardened the heart of the Jewish people because they rejected His Son. While there are and have been Jewish converts throughout the centuries, they nonetheless came to their saving knowledge of Christ via a serious handicap.
Consider also that the early Church was, for the first 10 years or so, give or take, was comprised almost solely of Jews. If the standard of salvation then was faith in Jesus Christ alone for the remission of sin, it stands to reason the standard today is the same.
As it is, I've lost almost all the readership I once had. But again, my purpose here is not to entertain anyone.
Now, you and I thoroughly disagree with a lot of what gets said over at ER and Dan's places, but consider what David had to say about God in Psalm 139:8
"If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there."
God is everywhere. No part of His creation is hid from Him or out of bounds for Him. We likewise are told to go into all the world... set our candles upon candlesticks. Why? To bring light into the dark places. By avoiding places like ER's and Dan, you rob their visitors of your light... the light God put in you, the light meant to shine in dark places rather than be hid under bushels.
Go into all the world. Even the Inn of the Erudite Redneck. If you see a few naked breasts consider it an opportunity to witness.
Some of the commenters there can't go two sentences without contradicting themselves - prattling on about love while displaying the most vicious passive-aggressiveness - not to mention the idiocy of a "Christian" rebuking a Christian for claiming that Islam is a false religion. Either Islam is false or Christianity is, so for a Christian to say Islam isn't false is ignorance or cowardice.
It's not about deleting evil comments...it's about cavorting in agreement with people like Kevron against believers like you and me, EL.
That is evil. Hiding under the guise of compassion towards the deranged, he joins in their derangement.
But this post is not about all that. I just couldn't let the coziness of your "Inn" description stand.
[The folk of Athens said to Paul:] "For you bring some strange notions to our ears; we should like to know what these things mean."
Now all the Athenians as well as the foreigners residing there used their time for nothing else but telling or hearing something new.
Then Paul stood up at the Areopagus and said: "You Athenians, I see that in every respect you are very religious.
For as I walked around looking carefully at your shrines, I even discovered an altar inscribed, 'To an Unknown God.' What therefore you unknowingly worship, I proclaim to you.
The God who made the world and all that is in it, the Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in sanctuaries made by human hands, nor is he served by human hands because he needs anything. Rather it is he who gives to everyone life and breath and everything.
God made from one the whole human race to dwell on the entire surface of the earth, and he fixed the ordered seasons and the boundaries of their regions, so that people might seek God, even perhaps grope for him and find him, though indeed he is not far from any one of us.
For 'In him we live and move and have our being,' as even some of your poets have said, 'For we too are his offspring.'
Since therefore we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divinity is like an image fashioned from gold, silver, or stone by human art and imagination.
God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now he demands that all people everywhere repent because he has established a day on which he will 'judge the world with justice' through a man he has appointed, and he has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead."
"...but now he demands that all people everywhere repent because he has established a day on which he will 'judge the world with justice' through a man he has appointed, and he has provided confirmation for all by raising him from the dead."
Many religions my say, "Okay, feel free, but we're seeking Nirvana, or Valhalla, or whatever..." but this verse, even in the translation you use says that Jesus will judge them. The question now is; By what measure will Jesus judge? And if it's by the example and the words He spoke, then everyone needs to pick up a Bible and read, and put into practice all that He taught and said. This includes such statements as "no one comes to the father but by me" and "No one can come to the Father unless the Spirit draw him" or "I and my Father are One" or "Before Abraham was, I AM"
He said a lot of other very important things as well, but we can't pick and choose willy nilly what we like and what we don't like. Everything Jesus said points to the truth that He is the only way to Heaven. The ONLY way.
Mormonism does not follow that way. Jehovahs Witnesses do not follow that way. Neither do Muslims, Shintos, Buddhists, or Hindus... And a good many professing CHRISTIANS don't follow that way either...
Contrary to Bent's first statement, the "theology" here is not at all murky. It's crystal clear.
But looking further at what Paul had to say to the Athenians, note that he spoke truth when he said "We are all the offspring of God." Offspring, yes. But some are (in the language of King James) bastards. Looking at the many world religions today that are antithetical to Christianity, and I think it's fair to say a good many of these religions are 'Bastard' religions... Just as Paul then called the idolatrous Athenians to worship the One True God, so too are we to call all nations to repentance and warn them of the consequence of clinging to their false gods. There is only one genuine God, and that is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the first member of a Triune Godhead, wherein Jesus is number 2, and the Holy Spirit number 3.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life... No one else. No one.
But that's not to say Muslims can't be saved. All they have to do is accept Jesus as their Savior; believe that He is who He say He is, that He died for their sins, and that God raised Him from the dead, then find a good church, read their bibles, and put into practice what it has to say about good Christian living. This will work for Hindus, Buddhists, Shintoists, Jehovahs Witnesses, Mormons... even professing Christians.
Paul wasn't calling the Athenians to accept Christ as their savior but continue in their sin of worshiping other gods.
Just as God called the Jews out of the world; to be a "peculiar people," the same is true in this Christian age. We are to be a peculiar people, separated from ungodliness. Which means we must forsake our idols, renounce our false religions and become Christ-like... to become holy and acceptable; to offer ourselves a living sacrifice, which is our reasonable service to the one who has saved us from the penalty of our sin.
1 Kings 18:17-40
Think the priests of Baal got a raw deal? Think about the millions who will suffer the SECOND death for clinging to their idols and false gods.
I'm not spewing hatred here. I'm trying, as plainly and as bluntly as I know how, to warn anyone who will listen, that there is a heavy price to pay for worshiping false gods.
He's very accomodating and polite to them, not calling them bastards but saying that we are all children of God. The "pagan's" own prophets were right on at least some things, Paul says, quoting them. People everywhere "grope" for God and "this is the God we're talking about," Paul says.
He doesn't call their religions "false religions," just incomplete. He doesn't say they're worshiping false gods or even tell them they're worshiping demons, but rather, the Only God.
And yes, he does say - as do I - that God is best known through the life, teachings, death and resurrection of Jesus.
That's what I read there. Is that a fair reading, you think?
(EL: He is the only person in blogland who is on my sh-tlist, because he is relentless is his own evil. You tolerate him at the risk of your own reputation.)
Um, NOT. Hee hee.
(I can think of no other explanation for his vitriol against our sissified brethren! Lordy! How many Baptist churches in the South would be without pianists and organ players if gays were run plumb off?!?)
However, in Acts 17:16 Paul notes that "the city [was] wholly given to idolatry." Wholly... Entirely. But Paul had been vocal while in Athens waiting for Timotheus and Silas, preaching in the Synagogue and in the Market. When the Philosophers heard of his strange doctrine they invited him to the Areopagus to speak before them [vs. 18].
And note more closely what he tells them... in verse 22 he calls them superstitious [your translation says 'religious']. The only explanation for a temple to "The Unknown God" is that these people were superstitious, and thus fearful of offending any god they may have left out, seeing as how the city was filled with shrines to every god in their pantheon. The Greeks were Polytheists, as in Many gods; but being superstitious they recognized it would be to their advantage to build a shrine to an unknown god on the off-chance they might have forgotten one. This way they forestall his or her wrath by conceding their ignorance in advance and making provision for honoring whoever they might have forgotten. This hardly shows that they are merely 'misguided' about their knowledge of the God of Israel and His son Jesus.
Of this Unknown god, Paul said they "Ignorantly" worshiped him-- they didn't know WHO or what they worshiped. [vs. 23]
So he sets off to tell them of the God he sees they are ignorant of... not that they ignorantly worship the God of Israel, but that they are "Wholly" ignorant of the God of Israel. Paul used their superstition and fear as an "in" to preach the Gospel to the elders of a city that was "wholly given to idolatry." Meaning they didn't ignorantly worship the True God, they didn't KNOW the True God.
So he stands up and gives them the Gospel; some accept it, some reject it outright, while still others ask for him to return and speak again...
He does call their religion false. He sees that the entire city is given wholly to idolatry. Idolatry isn't an incomplete understanding of God. What? Were the priests of Baal incomplete in their understanding and worship of God? Nope. Sorry. They worshiped a god who couldn't be woken up long enough to rain fire down upon a sacrifice, unlike the God of Elijah. And what happened to all the priests of Baal? Slain. By Elijah's own hand.
Why are the Epicureans any different? Epicureanism was the philosophical system taught by Epicurus, emphasizing happiness and contentment in the here and now as the goal of life. That isn't even in the same ballpark as Christianity.
The Greeks were Idolaters until Paul arrived with Silas and Timothy. They were lost. On their way to the bad place. Not because they were all "wholly" evil, but because even the good hearted among them did not know God or His son Jesus.
Not trying to be combative, but this is a fairer reading of Acts 17.
Well, not in this particular passage, seems to me. Seems to me he just calls it incomplete.
And that, to me, is a more Godly way to deal with other religions.
No need to blast them as heathens, to curse them as godless. For one thing, you ain't gonna win many converts that way.
Rather, Paul here seems to give them credit for what they have right and then offer the rest of the story for those who are interested.
And that, to me, is a problem with how many Christians deal with Jews, Muslims, etc. There seems to be an arrogance, a know-it-all attitude, belittling of other faiths.
Humility and love would argue against that approach. Sure, we should believe what we believe and not apologize for our faith tradition - I'm certainly not suggesting that and Paul doesn't here - but we should believe and share Good News as if it were actually good news.
Seems to me.
Jesus, announcing his ministry, from Luke 4
Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
Mark 1:14-15
Jesus was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom...
Matt 4:23
And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'
Jesus, to his disciples in Matt. 10
"Pray, then, in this way:
'Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be Your name.
'Your kingdom come
Your will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven..."
Jesus teaching us how to pray (and live) in Matt 6
You ought to come to our church some time, mom2. We love to preach the Gospel of God's Kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven: Good news to the poor, freedom for the captives, wholeness to the ill, an end of oppression and the beginning of God's Kingdom come! Hallelujah!
We are excited about Jesus' message at Jeff St.
It is all biblically-based, as you see from my quotes above. And we are certainly not just meeting for fun and fellowship (although we do that, as well), but to be about God's Work, praying and working, "God's kingdom come, God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
We have as our pastor the most prophetic preacher I've ever heard, and I've heard some good ones.
So, I expect you might be surprised if you were to ever to darken our doors.
Peace.
[and sorry, Eric, I've managed to drift off-topic again...]
As to the relevant text in Acts 17, I see nothing in the text to indicate Paul thought they had anything right. He was gracious-- charming perhaps, but he didn't say they had anything right... only that they ignorantly worshiped AN unknown god, and being unknown to them; i.e., entirely alien to them, he was there to them about the God the knew nothing about. The only One who could save them.
They didn't have anything right. But Paul was there to rectify that.
As to the rest. I agree with you-- more flies with honey and all that..., but allow me to point out that I am not debating anyone who I know to be Jewish or Muslim. This discussion is between mostly Christian people. I am not "blasting as heathens," or "cursing as godless" anyone. I am only discussing the merits of their religion which, in the end game, will not save them. I would never approach a Muslim or a Jew with blasting or cursing. My responsibility-- and I've stated as much at ER's place --is to love them. Part and parcel with that love is a desire to see them escape the fires of hell; a feat their own religion cannot manage for them. They must have Christ in their hearts if they are to escape what is surely coming.
"...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment."
--Hebrews 9:27
..."he was there to [tell] them about the God the[y] knew nothing about.
Or maybe he needed Telly Salvalas...
Just for clarification's sake, I wasn't directing that at you or anyone I know. Rather, I was just saying, in general, why would we do that?
Well, that and because I DO hear people blast them thusly when not talking to them individually.
I rarely go to ERs blog anymore. And even more rarely comment. I comment there ocassionally when the topic is not a controversial one. I get tired of being told I'm stupid by his commenters.
Actually, I rarely have time to frequent anyone's blog anymore. It isn't personal, EL, I just haven't had as much time as I used to.
This thread reminds me of the story of the rich man and Lazurus. Remember when the rich man, suffering in Hades, asked for someone to go to his brothers to warn them about what will ultimately be their fate if they fail to repent?
Remember what he was told?
They have Moses and the Prophets. If they don't listen to them, why would they listen to a man who comes back to life?
Shake the dust off your shoes at them, Eric. You are only casting pearls before swine.
I'm not saying ER is a swine. I am sure he is a very nice person and even sincere in his misunderstanding. It's an analogy, created by Jesus himself.