I related in a previous post the difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven-- near universally disagreed upon by commenters. And in light of a discussion now going on at Dan's place, I'm taking the occasion of this discussion to answer a few points here as to just what is the Gospel, and to 'separate the kingdoms' if you will between what Jesus taught and what He expects of us as His followers.
Jesus said,
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
--John 14:15
In context, Jesus began by telling His disciples that in His father's house are many mansions, and that He now goes to prepare a place for them. He tells them He is "the way, the truth, and the life" and that no man comes to the Father, but by/through Him [In John 10 Jesus told the crowd "I am the door of the sheep." The door by which all His sheep must pass through. Simple enough]. Phillip then asks Jesus to show them the father, to which Jesus seems to shake His head in wonder and says, 'have I been this long with you and STILL you don't see it?' He then says,
Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
--verse 11
Jesus then tells them that He's sending them a comforter, the Holy Spirit, to teach them all things, and bring all things to their remembrance, everything He had said to them.
Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
--Verses 23-26
So what are His words, His sayings, His commandments? It's the totality of His father's message to His disciples. All of it. Which makes all of it important. But there is an over-riding theme, and that is "believe in me and Him who sent me." But believe what specifically? That He healed the sick? raised the dead? what? Taught a good sermon or two on how to live Godly? What was man's greatest need that Jesus came to fulfill?
To free them from the power and coming judgment of their sin.
God Himself uttered the first prophecy in Genesis 3:15. Jesus. For if all Jesus came for was to teach us how to live and relate to one another, why did He have to die? He could have taught us all we needed and ascended into heaven. He did many miracles to demonstrate who He was. So why the cross?
And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up
--John 3:14
What is it about the crucifixion and Moses' brazen serpent that links them?
And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
Numbers 21:9
The serpent, or rather, Sin was lifted up that anyone who looked upon it [demonstrating faith] would live. Jesus likewise was lifted up as Sin,
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
--2 Corinthians 5:21
Jesus came, according to His own words, for one reason,
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
--Luke 19:10
That was His primary purpose. To find us and save us who are lost in sin.
But this by no means negates the importance of the Sermon on the Mount. We must put that sermon into perspective. Jesus knew why He came, and He knew His message would be rejected. And in the rejection the fulfillment of His purpose on Earth.
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord."
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them,
"This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."
--Luke 4:18-21
This is a direct, though incomplete quote of Isaiah 61:1-9
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; to proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; to appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. For I the LORD love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them. And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the LORD hath blessed.
But notice where Jesus stopped: "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord..." He separates the "acceptable year" from "the day of vengeance." He makes distinction between them. The Jews see Isaiah's prophecy as a whole, undivided by nearly two millennia, prophecy. Naturally, those who believed on Him expected the second part as well. But when He clearly told them He must die at the hands of evil men, they rejected Him. They saw a conquering king, but we, in hindsight see the suffering Messiah first, to be followed by the conquering King.
Jesus knew from the beginning He would not be accepted as their Messiah. But He had to work His father's will as though He would be accepted. How could a just God, after all, judge sinful men if He did not give them all He said he would... to preach liberty to the captives, etc... the Kingdom of Heaven, as promised, was delivered. All they had to do was accept Him as King. Jesus demonstrated the Kingdom of Heaven by demonstrating the power of God to heal the leper, the blind, the lame, the halt, the demon possessed. Said Nicodemus,
We know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
John 3:2
Jesus' immediate and [in hindsight] unambiguous reply,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
But wait a minute! Jesus is out there preaching the kingdom of God! And now he tells Nicodemus he can't see it unless he's born again!?
Here then is the primacy of Jesus' command,
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you...
--Matthew 28:19-20
In order:
1) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations
2) baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
3) teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you
The Gospel Dan puts forth neglects the winning of souls, and jumps straight to the Sermon on the mount and the truncated prophecy of Isaiah 61, thereby teaching everyone to live as though they were IN the Kingdom of God, when Jesus himself said they must FIRST be born again. MUST be born again.
The Kingdom of God is in our hearts, put there by the Holy Spirit who, assuming we surrender daily to His leading, sanctifies us over time. We are made righteous the moment we receive the Holy Spirit, but we are sanctified over time. It is true that some Christians are holier than others, but this is not an attitude they affect, it is the result of their continued surrender to the ministry of the Holy Spirit in their lives. That doesn't make the likes of say, Billy Graham any more righteous. Only more holy... closer to what God wants from all of us: to be conformed to the image of His son [Romans 8:9].
To neglect the Gospel which is, as I have oft repeated,
Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
1 Corinthians 15:3-4
...is to put the cart before the horse. You cannot see the Kingdom of God [in your heart and in your life] unless you are FIRST born again. It is pointless to teach people the sermon on the mount as THE way to live and not give them the equipment needed to apply that WAY in their lives. Without the empowering of the Holy Spirit they will fail. The condition of their soul before the throne of God must FIRST be addressed. They must be born again. You must be born again.
No one is perfect. If you are a sinner, God's not asking you to be perfect. All He's asking is that you accept the payment for you sin, in His Son Jesus Christ's sacrifice. Open the door of your heart and let the Holy Spirit come in; let the Holy Spirit do the work of transforming you from a child of darkness into a child of Light. The speed with which the transformation in your life will occur, is wholly dependent upon how much control over your daily life you give the Holy Spirit which now dwells within you. Cling to your own will and that transformation will be slow, and you won't see any appreciable difference between who you were before receiving Christ and after.
It is, therefore, quite and evidently clear that Salvation MUST come first before anything else. by all means, feed and clothe the poor; as a Christian that is one of your many duties, but do not neglect the Gospel. If you do nothing else, slip a gospel tract into the pocket of the coat you're planning to give to that homeless man you saw yesterday; maybe a pocket-sized New Testament. DO something beside just handing them a sandwich. You will surely provide for a temporary hunger. But without the Gospel, and through which, an opportunity to receive Christ, you do nothing to assuage the eternal hunger for forgiveness they will surely suffer in hell if you choose to NOT present the Gospel.
Go ye into all the world [wherever in the world you find yourself], and preach the gospel to every creature.
--Mark 16:15 [with emphasis]
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Erasmus, "The Complaint of Peace."
Too many churches are preaching a social gospel and excluding the true purpose of Christ's mission here on earth. Yes, we must live as Jesus taught us, and help feed the hungry, clothe the poor, etc. But what will it profit them if they still die and spend eternity in hell? If I had to choose between giving food to a starving man or leading him to Christ - and there was no time to do both, I would rather see his soul saved.
Fortunately, that scenario does not have to happen. We can do both - but with the priority on seeing men's souls saved. Provide for the spiritual first, then the flesh.
For what shall it profit a man...? I could establish a soup kitchen and feed and clothe multitudes, but unless I give them the Gospel they will merely die in their sins, albeit clothed and well fed.
I can't fault Dan and others for seeking to care for those in need. But neither can I praise them for their overt concern for the lost.
As you noted:
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
~Jesus' words
And immediately following that:
That was His primary purpose. To find us and save us who are lost in sin.
You have jumped from one of Jesus' sayings where He rightly states that he came to seek and save the lost and moved FROM THAT to making the additional and extrabiblical statement, "It's his PRIMARY purpose."
Jesus doesn't make that distinction. You do.
In the end, you seem to be trying to hard to object to what I've said. I AGREE that Jesus came to seek and save the lost. I agree that we are lost and in need of salvation. I agree that we are saved by God's grace. I agree with ALL of Jesus' teachings.
You, for your part, agree that just knowing that Jesus is the son of God who died and rose again is not enough to be saved.
You agree (I'm pretty sure) that all the other teachings of Jesus are literally true, and hopefully you wouldn't want to choose Jesus' teachings to start saying that some of the Bible is not to be taken literally.
We agree on nearly every point with the exception, I believe, that you want to put an additional extrabiblical description on ONE of Jesus' teachings, calling it the Primary teaching.
Lacking any biblical teaching to support that point, why do you cling so tenaciously to it? Because it seems reasonable to you?
You seem to believe that it was meant as an imperative: "You must do this thing, Nicodemus, or, have this thing done to you, in order for X to happen."
Could it be that the sense actually was in the form of an explanation?
Yes. And I think it was.
Nicodemus asked how can these things be??
How can what things be??
How can the Good News -- that salvation is free and that the Kingdom of God is at hand! -- how can that be??
"Because man has been born again. Because I, as Christ, the new Adam (you ought to like that, EL), am here. Now. It's so great of a do-over that it makes the Flood and Noah story look like a fairy tale."
Keep preachin'. You'll make me a total universalist the more you keep drawing lines in the sand and acting the bouncer for God, telling people who can, and who can't, get God's grace all over 'em.
LOL! Y'all who so think you are so closely guardin' the Gospel are like the ones in the story who ran around picking up and trying to hoard the manna! Ha!
Jesus swung the gate wide-ass open, man, and NO ONE is checking tickets! THATS's the Good News -- NOT another damned set of rules.
G'night.
DROOOOD!
Re, "Romans 13 teaches us to be loyal to our nation even in times of war, but that is off topic."
Romans teaches neither you, not me, anything. Paul, in the letter we now call "Romans," is talking to the Christians in Rome that he was writing to. Good for guidance as to what Paul was trying to say to those he was writing to. And that's very important. But that's about it.
And I step back.
Buenos noches.
Re, "Romans 13 teaches us to be loyal to our nation even in times of war, but that is off topic."
Does not.
And I'm glad you weren't a German citizen in WWII, because apparently you'd have remained loyal to the Nazis. And that would be a shame.
A better example would be ask if Christian Soviets should support Communism.
Romans 13 also says to pay tribute to whom tribute is due, dues to whom dues are due, custom to whom custom is due, fear to whom fear is due, honor to whom honor is due. On top of this we have to keep in mind Jesus' response to the pharisees when they asked, 'should we pay taxes to Rome?'
'Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and to God the things which are God's.'
We are to make judgments, or distinctions, between who gets what. Paying tribute, however, is not the same as "being loyal." We are to be loyal to God. Period. That includes loyalty to our brothers and sisters in Christ when being so doesn't call into question our loyalty to God; to His truth... His rule over us.
Under a Communist regime, as a believer in Christ [and this is my perception], unless I am asked to do or say anything contrary to what my faith dictates, I'd obey the orders of party officials. I'd be kind to them, bless them, go the extra mile, turn the other cheek [I'd even help those, as I was able, who resisted the Party]. But as a Christian we are NOT obligated to partake in their evil deeds. If they want you to hold a rifle and participate in a firing squad? no. If they put a shovel in your hand and demand you help bury the victims of said firing squad? yes.
You have to make distinction between what the spirit tells you, individually, in your heart, and what Caesar tells you. War is not appointed to all men. Some who go to war are exactly where God wants them to be.
Finally, Ben is absolutely right about "Robert's Rules of Order."
It says what it says. Are we not taking the Bible literally anymore Dan? ER how many other books of the Bible do you see as irrelevant?
We ARE to be subject to the gov't, but that does not mean we are "to be loyal to our nation even in times of war" - if that war is against God's wishes.
I suspect you agree and therefore agree that we are NOT to always blindly following the gov't. Therefore, I'm sure you probably agree that your suggestion is wrong. I would hope so.
Ought Shadrach, Meshack and Abednego have been loyal to Babylon while Babylon was at war?
We both believe the Bible.
We both read it.
You find that, despite there not being a single verse that says what you say (That was His primary purpose. To find us and save us who are lost in sin.), that this is what your hunch is as to what the Bible has to say about Jesus' mission.
I find that not to be the case.
WHY should I accept what you think over what I think the Bible is saying?
I'm not sure I agree. I will have to do a little bit of research to back that up.
However, even without my future research that hopefully I have time to do, I believe that the permanent (our souls) has more importance over the temporary( our physical needs). Would people disagree? No, there is no conflict, but one does have importance over the other, and sometimes you have to minister to the physical to meet the spiritual.
That being said, based on my understanding of the gospel, salvation (pertaining to the permanent, one's soul), is based upon an understanding of what Christ did for us and accepting Him. Knowing and believing that Jesus said "Love your neighbor" is all well and good, but other people have said the same (although not nearly as an effective example as Christ Himself), so I don't think believing in that teaching provides salvation. Understanding (and again, there are varying degrees of understanding between child and theological scholar) that we are not good enough on our own efforts, that Christ paid the penalty for our sins, that brings salvation.
John 18:38. NIV
"You are a king, then!" said Pilate.
Jesus answered, "You are right in saying I am a king. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this I came into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me."
None of this should be construed as who is keeping people in or out. God does that in his judgment and is rather clear in his word - assuming one believes the Bible is his word.
To say that everyone is getting in usurps God's role much more than communicating the orthodox Biblical view that only faith in Jesus can save us. Judging everyone to be "in" is being truly judgmental.
"But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins." "
if this angel is accurate then it sounds like the primary goal is to save people from their sins.
Unless poverty is a sin
Dan re-read the three men in the fiery furnace. They refused to bow down to a false god and submitted themselves to the punishment, for the sake of the Lord. It is a common theme in the Bible
Daniel and the lion's den
John the Baptist
Jesus
There are more.
What if in WWII Germany all Christians turned themselves in for refusal to obey. The holocaust may have never happened. But it did and as a direct result prophecy was fulfilled with the return of Israel as a nation.
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Not quite so. He invites all, that much is true. But He is certainly checking tickets. How did it go? "Many will say, 'Lord, Lord', but I will say, 'I don't know you'". Sounds like ticket checking to me. In addition, choice is an important point to remember. If there's no "ticket checking", then what's the point of choice? By your position, why bother to choose to live as Jesus taught? We can do anything we want because no one's checking tickets at the Pearly Gates. "He will judge the quick and the dead"? For what purpose? We all take our chances that we have interpreted Scripture well enough to understand what we must do for salvation. No one's "got it made" in the manner your interpretation suggests. We only have the opportunity to choose one way or the other. But there is a wrong choice. You make is sound as if we'll meet Hitler, Amin, Stalin, Pol Pot, because everyone gets Grace for free and that's all it takes cuz the gates are wide open. How does that even sound logical to you? What are you leaving out of the equation? This is the never ending question I have for you and you never flesh it out. It doesn't make the least bit of sense as you express it. I'm sincerely trying to dig it, but you ain't helpin' none.
Nope. They don[t have tidckets to check -- those fakewrs, charlatans and snake-oil salesmen.
It does not apply to Christians. Ther tickets are at the "will call" window.
LOL. I've mixed up the metaphor.
But I repeat -- and I will repeat until I'm hoarse: FAKERS are the ones who the Lord will say He never knew! FAKERS.
I'm not faking. And I don't personally know, actually, anyone who is.
If you think that refers to those who may or may not be wrong -- well, you're wrong, because ain't none of us got it totally right.
There is NONE perfect, but God. In. Heaven. And anyone whois checking tickets now is checkin' 'em on his own authority -- which is worthless.
How do you define the line between trying and faking? Many Christians, if not most or all, continue to sin. Let's speak of a single sin and tell me how many times can one backslide and still claim to be sincere? Where's the line between truly struggling with one's particular sin and simply faking? Even then, I would allow that most even just willfully give in to sin now and then, knowing full well they aren't trying, but still want salvation. I can concede a lot, knowing my own self to be so imperfect. I mean, really, do people sin by accident? It's always a choice. Do you see where I'm going here? (If so, please tell me. I'm not sure.) It's one of those chicken or the egg things that sometimes plague me. Let that role around in your noggin for a while and it becomes difficult to know if there are any fakers or if there are any who are sincere. And then remember that He will judge us all. I'm so glad I've accepted Him. How can His sacrifice NOT be the main message?
I'm not checking tickets. I'm just directing them to the ticket booth. No one gets in without a ticket.
And sorry to burst your bubble ER but FAKERS are only a small portion of those who are sadly lacking tickets. You use the word "Faker" as though this group alone is without a ticket, as if to suggest that Jesus swung the gate wide open for EVERYONE but them. What about those who aren't faking their Christian faith? What about Muslims? Hindus? Jews who die without accepting Jesus as their messiah? Their not "faking" but neither are they "holding tickets."
Jews can't be saved without Jesus because there is no Temple to perform the required sacrifices for their sins before God. He wouldn't accept their sacrifices anyway. Jesus was their sacrifice. The institution of animal sacrifice is over; it is eternally invalid; made moot by the sacrifice of the Son of God on Calvary.
Muslims? They believe IN Jesus... that He existed, and was a great prophet and teacher, but not that He died to pay their sin debt.
Hindus? They believe IN Jesus... that He existed, and had a lot of good things to say about how we should treat our fellow man, but not that he was the Son of God [Hindus are pantheistic, not monotheistic] who died for our sins.
There's a difference between believing IN something and believing ON something. Furthermore, Jesus Himself said that no one can come to the Father unless the Father draws him. No one can repent of their sins unless it is given to them by God. But Jesus said, "All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out."
Everyone who IS going to be saved, will be. The gate is wide open and everyone CAN be saved, but most will not. Most will choose this world and their lives of vapor over an eternity in presence of God. These people aren't fakers either. The gate was wide open, but they chose not to enter... they didn't WANT a ticket. The gate IS wide open, but it's open only for those who DO have tickets.
I'm not checking tickets. I'm only warning people of the consequences of NOT acquiring one.