With thanks to Neil for the wonderful shot of perspective
Actually, I am OK with unrestricted access to abortions... provided that the unborn get the same 10+ years of appeals that condemned killers do!
--Capital Punishment-Back in the News
at Eternity Matters
And I'll add to that here with a little perspective of my own....
Only half the patients who enter an abortion clinic come out alive.
It takes a special brand of depravity to argue against Capital Punishment while defending Abortion. And that is what is at the core of America's current shameful state of affairs... depravity.
That and Liberalism.
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The day-after pill and first trimester abortions are no more murder than eating a hamburger is murder.
All major structures, including hands, feet, head, brain, and other organs are present, but they continue to grow.
Your argument is as ridiculous as the ones I just outlined. But this is what comes from denying the existence of 'Black and White' truths.
Let's check ALL Liberals on that one. It seems to me the entire class suffers from "Tin Man Syndrome..." The complete and utter lack of anything even remotely resembling a heart.
Here we have a claim that can be verified. How about a series of pictures of fetal development? Or if we search a bit further - how about an extracted eight week old fetus. Notice the ruler - less than two centimeters.
An acorn has amazing potential, but we don't mourn the loss of each one crushed under car tires. Neither should we mourn the loss of collections of cells that have the potential to be human. Something that is essentially a parasite, something that couldn't survive without its host animal is by definition not human.
P.S. EL I've seen ads for pregnancy tests that claim to work within the first ten days of fertilization.
Paige is the third of five of my sister's children. My sister is 25 years old. All her children are wonderful. But they are also a burden, not on just my sister, but my entire family, direct and extended.
Until you have to be part of the decision of what to do with a pregnant 15 year-old rebellious girl, why don't you hold your self-righteous prattling to yourself. Until all you pro-life conservatives are willing to step up and be two-child foster homes - just shut-up.
I'll ask again, would it have been a better use of American money and troops to have forgone the war in Iraq and instead fed the world for these past five years? WWJD? Get a clue!
"As old as I am, I remember the awesomeness I felt after the delivery of my first baby."
Mom2, my wife said the same thing with our firstborn!
"The day-after pill and first trimester abortions are no more murder than eating a hamburger is murder."
Bent, a couple thoughts. If your mom had taken that pill when you were a in that state, where would you be now?
The unborn are human beings, even if they look a little different. It is a human embryo, a human fetus, a human baby, a human toddler, a human teen, etc.
"An acorn has amazing potential . . ."
By your analogy, babies have enormous potential but they aren't productive citizens yet. Can we kill them? Of course not. The only question is, "What is the unborn?" If it is not human, no excuse for abortion is necessary. If it is human, no excuse is acceptable (other than the life of the mother).
"But that isn't a thought that moves conservative hearts, black and brown people dieing far away."
Not only is that untrue, but that is irrelevant. First, you don't have to take ownership of a situation to be able to speak against the immorality of it. You can call the police on your wife-beating neighbor without having to marry her yourself.
And conservatives do plenty. There are more pregnancy centers than abortion clinics - funded by donations and staffed with 80% or more volunteers (mostly women, by the way).
"Until you have to be part of the decision of what to do with a pregnant 15 year-old rebellious girl, why don't you hold your self-righteous prattling to yourself. Until all you pro-life conservatives are willing to step up and be two-child foster homes - just shut-up."
I sympathize with your dilemma, but would encourage adoption over abortion. What if the 15 yr. old had a toddler? Would killer her be an option? Of course not. Again, the question is, "What is the unborn?"
I encourage people to go to Crisis Pregnancy Centers. Help and counseling is there.
If there is another human life at stake it shouldn't just be your decision.
This is not at issue. Killing the unborn is. People die everyday of hunger and disease, but they aren't hacked to death by scalpels, machetes, and such because their parents don't want them.
You accuse me of resorting to emotional arguments rather than logical ones. I encourage you therefore to do the same here-- you are comparing apples with oranges; muddying the water with unrelated issues.
WWJD? He'd mourn the murders of 50 million or so unborn children, and speak out against it. What do you think He'll do to those who engage in the practice as a profession when they stand before Him to be judged?
I have to admit, though. It's incredibly impressive, in a pathetic kind of way, the arguments used to defend the act of abortion. Such creativity. All for naught, however. Ya know, the homosexual activists like to compare themselves to the plight of blacks and women. A closer match is the unborn, for like blacks and women, they are considered non-persons. And why? Because of size and age. Blacks dissed for color, women dissed for gender, unborn for size and age. None of these can change what they are for something will always remain to identify them---DNA, chromosomes. Awareness means nothing, potential means nothing. The unborn, from fertilization, is a human being because that is what he/she is. Period. End of story. You go save the cows, Bent. What a humanitarian.
Blacks are disproportionately impacted by abortion.
Arguments used to justify abortion are similar to those used to justify slavery: “It is acceptable, because they aren’t fully human.”
“If you don’t want one, don’t have one. Don’t impose your moral values on me.”
“They are better off this way, otherwise they may be unwanted, poor or disabled.”
Slavery and abortion deny the humanity and dignity of living human beings who have beating hearts and can feel pain.
Slavery was once legal, but it was always immoral. Abortion is currently legal, but it has always been immoral. Hopefully the black community, which has traditionally been pro-life, will rise up and correct the NAACP and other leaders who now support abortion.
Image 1
Image 2
Image 3
Image 4
You can look at the file names and the the websites they come from and cheat, but honestly which one deserves special legal protection? What makes a human? When is that special qualification confirmed? Memories? None of these things have that. Sense perceptions? All of these things have that? Potential? All of these embryos have that. DNA? More than 85% of our DNA is generic among all mammals. What makes a human embryo different than a chicken, or cat, or dolphin?
My personal spiritual belief is that a soul cannot attach to something without a self-aware personality. Until an animal has the ability to make choices, and live and learn with the consequences, it doesn't have a soul or humanity.
It has only been since the 1700's that abortion has been seen as a christian sin. Were all those christians in the first millenium bound for hell?
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EL if the US had spent the money feeding the world's hungry instead of waging war in Iraq, we'd have saved almost 45-million lives. That's one of the base differences between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives would rather pay taxes to kill people than feed them. WWJD? Get a clue!
By this standard children upwards of 2 years have no soul or humanity? What then is the difference between killing a twelve week fetus or a 12 week infant? NONE by the standard you just outlined. Truly, this is the philosophy of great Humanitarians! And you are obviously proud to be a member of that club.
You cannot objectively prove this assertion. Stick to facts you can verify.
"Until an animal has the ability to make choices, and live and learn with the consequences, it doesn't have a soul or humanity."
Says who? Human beings have humanity. You don't earn an essence.
"It has only been since the 1700's that abortion has been seen as a christian sin. Were all those christians in the first millenium bound for hell?'
I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion. (And by definition, all Christians are bound for Heaven. They are sinners, but saved by the sacrifice of Jesus.)
Here's a quote from an early church leader:
"Athenagoras of Athens, circa 180 A.D. from A Plea For The Christians: "And when we say that those women who use drugs to bring on abortion commit murder, and will have to give an account to God for the abortion, on what principle should we commit murder? For it does not belong to the same person to regard the very foetus in the womb as a created being, and therefore an object of God's care, and when it has passed into life, to kill it . . ."
Here are a few more:
"You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay a child by abortion. You shall not kill that which has already been generated." (Epistle of Barnabas 19.5; second century)
"Do not murder a child by abortion or kill a new-born infant." (The Didache 2.2; second century catechism for young Christian converts)
"The fetus in the womb is a living being and therefore the object of God's care" (Athenagoras, A Plea for the Christians, 35.6; 177 A.D.)
"It does not matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to the birth. In both instances, the destruction is murder." (Tertullian, Apology, 9.4; second century)
"Those who give abortifacients for the destruction of a child conceived in the womb are murderers themselves, along with those receiving the poisons." (Basil the Great, Canons, 188.2; fourth century)
Jerome called abortion "the murder of an unborn child" (Letter to Eustochium, 22.13; fourth century). Augustine used the same phrase, warning against the terrible crime of "the murder of an unborn child" (On Marriage, 1.17.15; fourth century).
"The early church fathers Origen, Cyprian and Chrysostom likewise condemned abortion as the killing of a child."
Without looking at either the images you've presented, or going to the websites attached to cheat, I would not hazard a guess as to which is which. But then, I don't have to. Medical or forensic professionals can tell from DNA which is human. More to the point, there is little likelihood of finding any of the animal embryos developing within a human host, so your point is rather moot to say the least, and believe me, I could say a lot more about such a lame attempt.
But to answer one of your follow up questions, "What makes a human?" The answer is simple: Two humans of the opposite sex joined together in intercourse. Those same two humans CANNOT make anything else BUT another human. It's Biology 101 and I explained the whole thing in layman's terms at my blog. It was one of my first postings. (Shameless plug--sorry Eric)
Just curios, BenT....if i gave you "first trimester" and the "day-after pill"...would you give me second and third trimester?
Again...just curious. Put your money where your mouth is.
What's the differsnce between a first trimester baby and a second/third?
They're all human. They're all babvies. If they are aborted...they all fit the definition of murdered.
Why can't murder-advocating liberals admit that?
Well now...what a most revealing statement.
So...abortion is in fact for convenience sake even in your eyes, BenT.
Thank God for those whose faith is in the eternal King of Kings!
God save our nation from god-denying baby-murderer advocates like BenT.
The four images I linked to above are all remarkably similar, and illustrate that before an embryo can begin developing uniquely species traits it has to evolve/grow through phases common to all animals.
I don't see the ethical consequences of termination at those stages being the same as for a late-term embryo.
When my sister became pregnant at the age of 15, a large part of her decision to have her children was from religious and family pressure. I certainly never planned to take on a father role at the age of 22, yet I have. If conservatives are going to press women to carry all pregnancies to term, then they should take some responsibilities for the resulting children! Yet almost every other day, I'm responding to some post from you pious christians about how you aren't willing to pay taxes for welfare services.
If a woman wants to destory her toddler, do we have to take full responsibility for the child if we "press" her not to? Of course not. So the question is, "What is the unborn?" Regardless of your pictures, an unborn human being is just that: a human being.
The notion that those who stand up for righteousness need be burdened with the consequences of stupidity and irresponsibility is a very lame angle. We same conservatives insist on morally upright behavior. It would be far easier to ensure prevention of the consequences than to have to deal with them afterwards. If there is anyone who should be held responsible beyond the 15 yr old herself, it's the people around her who raised her and influence her. Don't cry to those who seek to raise up the character of society.