"Hope is making a comeback and, let me tell you, for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country. Not just because Barack is doing well, but I think people are hungry for change..."
Michelle Obama, February 18, 2008
NOW, she's proud. What about when America sent billions in aid to the tsunami victims? What about the billions America spends on AIDS victims in Africa? What about the passage of civil rights legislation in the 60's? Oh, that's right... she said, 'in my adult life.'
It would be nice to know what changes her husband has in mind, but he's notoriously-- deliberately? --light on specifics. Some are willing to wait till after the nomination to hear specifics, but to my strange way of thinking, I'd like to hear specifics BEFORE the nomination is locked up. It's only makes sense to know what one is getting before one puts his or her money down. Makes sense to me at least.
The HillBilly is going to be all over this one. First B. Hussein doesn't put his hand on his heart for the national anthem, and now his wife is finally proud of America. She's finally proud of the country that just might elect her husband to the presidency.
Will she take it back if he loses? Will she cease to be 'proud' of her country?
What's wrong with America these days? Fewer and fewer people are actually proud of their country.
That among other equally disturbing things.
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I feel that way oftentimes. And I think you do, as well, the way you have criticized Bush and Clinton, right?
I predict this won't hurt Obama in the least.
And, no, I would not berate McCain or Romney if they or their wife made that sort of comment. As I just said, I've felt that way at times - especially during these last eight years and during Reagan's years, I was quite embarassed at US policy. So, I wouldn't berate anyone for expressing something similar to what I've expressed.
Just a note: I DID include Clinton in my list of what I figured her adult life was. For many of we progressive types, the Clinton years were an embarrassment.
I guess the real question is up until now how did she feel about the US? Perhaps she was ashamed of us.
Opposed to PC statements.
Opposed to stupid statements.
Are you, Dan, really viewing this in the same way you took Dobson's statement regarding libs?
"I predict this won't hurt Obama in the least."
If his record as an IL state senator doesn't hurt him, killing a puppy wouldn't hurt him. His blind followers won't flinch a bit at Michelle's statement.
Just because you disagree with what path we take towards morality (a path that, for instance, considers torture to be wrong and hiring convicted criminals and corporate cronies unethical) than you do, you need not impugn the dignity, morality nor intelligence of the Others.
Speaking at least for my community, we are highly intelligent, hard-working, God-loving Christ-following, neighbor- and enemy-loving citizens of this beloved country. Obama will not deliver us to the Kingdom, but neither is he the devil incarnate.
Will you choose to oppose us at every turn as we try a new tack on living up to our nation's great ideals or will you at least meet us halfway and work on those ideals that we have in common?
Your blind partisanship and hatred of The Others is tiring. Fortunately, We, the People are not made up of endless rows of Marshall drones.
Note that his name is Barack Hussein Obama. He is known by Barack Obama. He does not use Hussein. Try for something a bit less juvenile.
And I hope she says it again. And again!
And yes, if her husband loses, I will return to the shame I've felt for this country for its bullying abroad, and it's heartless, unthinking worship of the free market, for damn near MY whole adult life. Yet I, and she, will continue to plug along.
"We are not blind at all but find [Obama's] candidacy the most moral, ethical and hopeful of the three options..."
Barack Obama supports abortion. the MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN!
"Just because you disagree with what path we take towards morality (a path that, for instance, considers torture to be wrong and hiring convicted criminals and corporate cronies unethical) than you do, you need not impugn the dignity, morality nor intelligence of the Others."
I do question the dignity, morality and intelligence of a CHRISTIAN communtity which supports a man who in turn supports abortion, THE MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN!
"We are highly intelligent, hard-working, God-loving Christ-following, neighbor- and enemy-loving citizens of this beloved country.
Highly intelligent? Highly doubtful! Hard-working? So what? God-loving? NOT WHEN YOU SUPPORT A MAN WHO SUPPORTS ABORTION!!! Christ following? NO SIR! YOU SUPPORT A MAN WHO SUPPORTS MURDER! I commend you for your love of enemies, but supporting them is another matter altogether! Obama is an enemy to millions of children who NEVER got an opportunity to play in the grass. NEVER got to fly a kite, or eat a piece of birthday cake!
"Obama will not deliver us to the Kingdom, but neither is he the devil incarnate."
Obama may not be the devil incarnate but he leans heavily toward evil... AND YOU SUPPORT HIM!
"Will you choose to oppose us at every turn as we try a new tack on living up to our nation's great ideals"
I will ALWAYS oppose you when you stand for someone who defends the MURDER OF UNBORN CHILDREN! I will oppose you at EVERY tack that steers this nation deeper into the abomination that is ABORTION! This nation's "great ideals" was not founded on the MURDER OF INNOCENT UNBORN CHILDREN!
"will you at least meet us halfway and work on those ideals that we have in common?"
NO SIR! I will not meet ANYONE halfway to work on ANY common ground who supports a man who thinks killing unborn children is even the remotest bit ethical. That you will support such a man makes me VERY sad to hear you call yourself "Christian."
"Your blind partisanship and hatred of The Others is tiring."
Blind Partisanship? What about your blind hypocrisy! PULL THE BEAM OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE!!!
"We, the People are not made up of endless rows of Marshall drones"
How dare you suggest "WE the PEOPLE" are made up of the likes of you and your so-called Christianity! If this is what Jeff Street is all about.... it's no wonder real Christians are as scarce as they are.
Obama voted against banning partial birth abortion.
Obama supports the promotion of Embryonic Stem Cell Research.
Obama trusts women to make their own decisions on partial-birth abortion
Obama supports Roe v Wade.
Obama voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
Obama is no friend to the unborn.
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
--Matthew 18:6
"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven."
--Matthew 18:10
"Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish."
--Matthew 18:14
"And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea."
--Mark 9:42
"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones."
--Luke 17:2
"You shall love your neighbor more than your own life. You shall not slay a child by abortion. You shall not kill that which has already been generated." Epistle of Barnabas 19.5
"Do not murder a child by abortion or kill a new-born infant."
--The Didache 2.2
"It does not matter whether you take away a life that is born, or destroy one that is coming to the birth. In both instances, the destruction is murder."
--Tertullian, Apology, 9.4
"Those who give abortifacients for the destruction of a child conceived in the womb are murderers themselves, along with those receiving the poisons."
--Basil the Great, Canons, 188.2
I will never meet you half-way to anywhere as long as you support a man like Barack Hussein Obama.
Never.
Oh, and Ben. EVERY President since FDR has used his middle name. It is not juvenile to use Barack's.
[Thank you Neil for the quotes from notable early Church fathers]
And just WTH doe you think the opposite of pride is, anyway?
Let's see. Antonyms for "pride" are humility, modesty, shyness, timidity.
What she meant was she's got her war face on for the good, finally. Y'all know that, and y'all embarrass y'alls' selves for trying to twist this -- surprise! -- into something it's not.
On the "I will never meet you halfway" crack. Then, really, you're the one that's unAmerican, EL. Considering the professed standards of the current president, and what's left of your pathetic party, you might should lay low until President BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA closes Guatanamo and reinstitutes habeas corpus.
You mean like you're trying to wring some innocence out of, "for the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country"?
Btw, you're a fine one to lecture ANYONE on humility. Someone has to defend the rights of the unborn. You're not. Dan's not. Obama certainly isn't. Today it was my turn. Tomorrow it will be someone else's. I will accept being rebuked for pride the day you take your turn standing in the gap for the unborn. And defending a candidate who defends the evil practice of abortion is NOT 'standing in the gap'.
If I seem unduly harsh in my criticism, just consider my motivation...
"...If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."
--Luke 17:3
Seventy times seven, but you have yet to ask even once. You want to talk about pride? Let's talk about shame. The shame you heap upon the name of Christ for supporting a man who advocates the murder of unborn children. Shame of you and Dan both.
When you condemn me for standing against those who defend abortion, a practice Jesus would never support, you trespass not only against me, but against the Lord first and foremost. What was it David said?
I urge you both, let Psalm 41:4 and 51:1-4 be your prayer...
"LORD, be merciful unto me: heal my soul; for I have sinned against thee..."
"Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight"
I will pray for you and Dan both. And I will take my own advice on this and make those verses my own prayer. What have I done to defend the lives of innocent children? Just talk? Just raise my voice? Heaven help me. Heaven help us all.
Eric, you know that I could just as easily get all huffy and blast you for your cowardice and evil in the policies you support and the policies you refuse to oppose. The plain scriptures you choose to ignore.
The truth is, though, you are trying your best to follow Christ's teachings as you understand them. I know that.
Just as ER, Barack, Michelle and I are striving to do.
Is it possible that we make mistakes? Sure, it is possible that you or I make mistakes - perhaps I'm wrong that medical decisions like abortion should be left to the family and not be a gov't decision. Perhaps you're wrong on supporting actions like the Iraq invasion.
But the thing is, there's no real point in going the demonization route. If we insist - because the other is a flawed human being and has made a mistake in policy - that the other is MORE than just in error, but that they are actually EVIL - doing the work of the DEVIL; monsters to be stopped at all costs!!, then, well we'll be more likely to be prepared to do whatever it takes to stop the Great Satan.
Just like some terrorist brothers and sisters are prepared to do.
If, on the other hand, Eric - AS DEADLY WRONG AS I THINK HE IS - (Or Bush, or Dan, or Obama) is just mistaken, well, I have to sympathize a bit with the human condition.
Eric, I disagree with you. I don't hate you. I mostly refuse to try to demonize you or Marshall because you disagree with me.
There's a difference. And it's an important difference. If you and ER and Marshall and I - fellow Christians, fellow citizens in a common homeland - if we can't get along at least at a basic level, well, where is the Good News in that? The love of Christ? The Hope for the world?
The people of the US are tired of the politics of division. It's one large reason Bush and his ways and the Republican party is on the path towards big losses this year. Not so much because Dems have demonstrated they have better plans, but because the Republicans have demonstrated that they are a party of division.
We are one people. It's time to start acting like it.
Mat 7:23-24
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
"And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. "
Romans 13
but im sure you will figure out some way to convince yourself that God hates war. God cares more about the earth then our souls and a hill-top is more valuable than a unborn child with a soul
Really?
Shame on you, then.
Read and learn:
Matthew 5:7-12
Edwin? I'm rejoicing, thanks.
And I repeat: We are one people. It's time to start acting like it.
Peace, brother.
Perhaps Romans 13 does give us a view on how God sees war. I never said God loved war, but I do believe God is capable of the entire range of emotions not just love and hate. God accepts war as means of accomplishing his will as it says in Romans 13.
You name the name of Christ as do I. Neither of us are perfect and we both know it, but that's not at issue. What is at issue is your description of Obama as, and I quote: "the most moral, ethical... of the three options."
I find this statement to be both personally offensive, and ignorant.
No candidate is perfect, and that's not the issue here. But to call Obama's candidacy the most "Moral" is insulting. He supports the murder of unborn children. Partial birth abortion is murder. It's not a question of identity-- is it a human? or some amorphous blob of tissue. It's a matter of geography. What's the difference between a child in the birth canal and a child in it's mother's arms? Geography. It's THAT simple to understand. Obama doesn't understand this. Judging by your continued defense of him as "moral" while completely ignoring his "evil" stance on abortion, [Please note I said, 'stance' not the man through and through] shows me you don't understand either. THAT, or you yourself have made a colossal faux pas`.
This is not a question, as you stated this morning, of 'making mistakes' or 'just being wrong'. This is a serious lapse of judgment by Obama, and you and your church for supporting him as the most moral candidate. If you want to support him, fine. That is your right. And believe it or not I celebrate your right to do so. But don't call the man and his candidacy 'moral'. And don't change the subject by deflecting attention to Iraqi, Rwandan, or America children. I don't deny there are moral imperatives there as well.
You cannot possibly convince me that there is even the slightest chance that God does not thoroughly condemn abortion... that He Himself calls it murder. How you can read the Bible and find rights for everyone else in the world, but none for the life of an unborn child [and I say this ONLY because you call a supporter of the most heinous act of abortion-- partial birth --a moral candidate] is utterly beyond comprehension... to me and, I'm quite sure, many others. How you can view this area as even remotely gray is astounding to me.
If you want to defend Obama, fine. But don't call the man moral. He is anything but, and I don't care WHAT church he goes to, or how many times a week he parks his butt on a pew, or how often he prays, or how much money he gives to charity. The man supports murder, and God cannot be happy about that. Nor do I believe He's happy that you and many others believe Obama to be the most "moral" candidate.
I'm angry at you Dan. Disappointed in you. But I do not hate you, nor do I seek to demonize you, OR Barack Obama. I do not wish you to leave. I do not wish you to take your opinions elsewhere. I just want you to be more careful. I Just want you to understand the ramifications of calling Barack Obama a moral candidate.
He is anything but. Will he bring change? Every president does. Will it be change for the better? That remains to be seen. But I personally am not the least bit optimistic on that score.
Does Barack Obama know that more black children are killed in less than three days, by abortion, than were lynched between 1882 and 1962? 3,446 blacks are known to have been lynched between 1882 and 1962, and yet more than 1,400 black children are aborted every single day.
According to the US Census Bureau in its 2000 Census Report, Blacks made up 12.3% of the American population, and yet accounted for 36% of all abortions.
Rev. Jesse Lee Peterson, founder and president of the non-profit Brotherhood Organization of a New Destiny, or BOND, says he doesn't want the first African-American president to hold values that are detrimental to the black community.
Rev Peterson says, "Abortion is genocide. It has had a greater affect on the African American community than slavery itself. For Barack Obama to support abortion shows a lack of love for the black community and especially for the unborn."
Rev. Clenard H. Childress Jr., senior pastor at New Calvary Baptist Church in Montclair, N.J., speaking specifically to Barack's vote against the Born Alive Victims Protection Act, had this to say, "Abortion affects the African-American community more than any other ethnic group in the country... Martin Luther King said of his daughter that he didn't want her to be judged by the color of her skin, but by the content of her character, [yet] people are applauding Obama because of the color of his skin and not his character."
Walter Hoye, who runs the Issues4Life Foundation in the San Francisco Bay area says, "Abortion is the No. 1 cause of death in the African-American community. We are below the replacement rate. We don't call it genocide to excite people. But it's a concern we have and it's become an issue that needs to be addressed nationally. I can't think of anything that hurts African-Americans more, [for] if you don't have life, what does the minimum wage mean? If you don't respect life, nothing else really matters."
Barack Obama talks a good talk; he's won 10 straight primaries, but it's his voting record that speaks the loudest. The abominable practice he supports with his votes show either gross ignorance of the plight of African-Americans in terms of abortion... genocide... or worse, he knows and doesn't care. I choose to believe he's simply ignorant. But for him to claim to be Christian... that ANYONE can support him as the most "moral" candidate on either ballot, again, shows either gross ignorance or pure disdain.
Don't talk to me about defending Iraqi, Sudanese, Rwandan, or American children until you're ready to defend the unborn.
What she said was: "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country.
Why leave out the "really?" Because it helps you blow it into as big a deal as you can, and freak out about "what's wrong with America," which is just plain silly.
Granted, it's a gaffe. But we're seeing exactly what we would expect with Republicans jumping on a line like that, and twisting it into something that sounds extremist and unpatriotic. It was a poor choice of words, get over it.
If so, I'd ask you this: Is there ANY circumstances in which you think the medical procedure of abortion is called for? What if the mother would die a painful death and the child would be born only to suffer for weeks and then die - in THAT circumstance, do you think an abortion might be an appropriate medical response?
I do. I think it MIGHT be an appropriate response, but that ultimately, it should be the family's decision to make, not the gov't's. I am pro-life. I am opposed to the notion of families aborting children because it's a boy instead of a girl, or because they aren't "ready" to have a baby.
If pro-lifers would concentrate on the notion of making abortion rare, instead of criminalizing the medical procedure of abortion, we'd find more common ground and could work better to minimize the number of so-called abortions of convenience.
But because there are touchy, "gray" circumstances, I want THE PEOPLE, not the gov't, to have the final say in how to deal with medical matters.
But just as you don't think abortion is anything but horrific, I don't think that the Iraq invasion or supporting torture (as McCain voted to do the other day) is anything but a crime against God and humanity.
So, faced with three choices, one of whom supports the Iraq war and torture, another who supported the Iraq war at one time but who is supposedly opposed to torture, and another who opposes both, but who is okay with abortion being decided at the family level, I find Obama to be the most ethical, moral choice. I understand that you disagree, as I disagree with you. But I'm just telling you what I think.
And it does not help to call him "wicked." It would be more productive, Christ-like, in my opinion, to say that you strongly disagree with him on the abortion issue. Calling him wicked IS demonizing him.
What if we all - every time we found someone who believed differently than us - called that person "wicked?" What kind of crazy country would we be living in then? How could we ever come to consensus on anything? Shall I call you and McCain wicked for supporting the Iraq War or torture? Shall we both call Ben wicked for supporting some form of universal health care? Shall we call Bush wicked for supporting amnesty?
To do so is to minimize the meaning of the word. If everything is wicked, then nothing is wicked.
No. She did not say "really." She may have meant "really," but that's not what she said. She said what she said twice. Once as quoted in the main post, and again like so...
"For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country, because it feels like hope is finally making a comeback."
Don't know where you're getting your news, but it's sadly lacking.
I pulled this quote, btw, from the Atlanta Journal Constitution... very much a Liberal rag.
Seriously? As harsh as this may sound, my answer is "no."
And that is where I believe you part ways from both morality and the bulk of the population.
But you are free to think that, just as other American families and individuals are (currently) free to make their own minds up.
Thanks be to God that Obama thinks thusly, too.
Not that I think ANY serious Republican candidates would ever change the abortion laws. They have had control of the bulk of gov't for many years and never even came close to doing so. It's their bread and butter, the way they get the religious right to keep voting for them.
They have NO desire to change the law. They only want to use it as another way to divide the US. Or, so the cynical side of me thinks.
Firstly, I couldn't care less what the 'bulk of the population' think about abortion. I care about what God thinks about abortion. As I know He is adamantly opposed to the killing of unborn children for any reason, I am therefore firmly upholding the morality God has established on this issue. It is wrong. It is an evil practice, akin to the whole "Fires of Moloch" business in the O.T. And those who perform it, practice it, and condone it are themselves, 'wicked' people.
You are dead wrong on this.
Secondly, as TO my use of 'wicked', anyone who advocates the murder of unborn children is, in that respect, 'wicked'. It also says a lot about that person's overall level of morality. Murder is wrong. Period. Irrespective of circumstance. It is always wrong. Rationalize it all you want, but it is still wrong. And it goes against everything God stands for... everything we as followers of Christ should stand for....
And don't.
You, rationalizing your support of Obama because he's not as evil as Hillary or McCain... go ahead. You're still wrong. I understand we're going to have to choose between the lesser of two evils-- assuming our sense of morality allows either of us to vote at all! --but I'm on record, here and elsewhere, that McCain is no saint. Far from it. You can't hang me with that accusation. I will likely write Keyes, if you must know.
Ha! Imagine that! ELAshley voting for a Black man! Sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but it has NEVER been about race-- my antipathy toward Barack Obama.
And I'm on the record repeatedly as saying that Obama is not a perfect candidate or anywhere near my favored candidate.
So, if we're going to get into the business of calling people evil because they have the wrong view on policy, then you are evil, Eric, for your support of Bush and his wicked war. For your refusal to say that targeting children AT ANY TIME (war or peace or abortion or whatever), you are wicked.
For your lying about Obama (you said he "advocates the murder of unborn children" when he clearly does not), you are lying about a brother, bearing false witness, breaking at least one of the commandments and you are wicked.
Is that how you really want to play this game? Everyone calling the other "wicked" for holding the wrong position?
Have at it, I'll pass.
You're not wicked, Eric. You're wrong.
"Not that I think ANY serious Republican candidates would ever change the abortion laws... it's their bread and butter, the way they get the religious right to keep voting for them."
Imagine the irony I saw in that statement considering all times I've heard scoffing from people on your side when I and others have made mirror-statements about the Democrats... like this one, for instance:
"Not that I think ANY serious Democrat candidates would ever do away with the earned income tax credit... it's their bread and butter, the way they get the poor and downtrodden to keep voting for them."
Or how about this one?
"Not that I think ANY serious Democrat candidates would ever vote to scrap the Income Tax... it's their bread and butter, the way they perpetuate their class-war and keep the poor and downtrodden voting for them."
There is one lawgiver and judge who is able to save or to destroy. Who then are you to judge your neighbor?
~Jesus' brother, James
(Actually, I'm a Christian kind of a guy primarily, then a Jeff Street kind of a guy secondarily, and a neo-Amish kind of guy, THEN maybe a Green kind of guy, but you get the idea...)
I am not lying about Obama. He thinks Partial Birth abortion is a procedure that should be an allowable option for mothers and doctors. The procedure itself is an abomination to life. He supports the use of the procedure, ergo, I have not lied about Obama. As to whether or not he is my brother remains to be seen. I have only his and your word on it. I for one am choosing to watch and see what kind of fruit he bears. I know what kind of fruit Bush bears, and it's not particularly sweet.
....
The following verse has just leaped to the fore of my mind, and I'll post it now. This, I believe, is what I hear from the Lord on this...
"And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper? And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand."
And because it's apropos at this point, I'll repeat the following:
"When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand."
--Ezekiel 33:8
No one is perfect. Certainly not I. If I see injustice toward children [to include the unborn] and I'm in a position to stop it and do nothing, THEN am I held to account. If I know of injustice toward children [to include the unborn] and can DO nothing to stop it, I must at the very least protest it [just as you and your wife protest the destruction of mountain tops... and no, I'm not mocking you. Ask me another time and I'll tell you an interesting story from one who used to live in the mountains of WV] Abortion is wicked. Those who support it are at the very least advocating 'wickedness'. And that is hardly a position one could call "founded on rock."
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Or rather, in the fruit he bears. And I've seen nothing thus far I'd like to sink my teeth into.
But let's not forget this one from the Lord's own lips:
"...If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."
--Luke 17:3
I'm still waiting for an opportunity to forgive him his stance on abortion.
We advocate NOT criminalizing this medical procedure. We want fewer abortions, fewer Iraqi children killed, fewer ill children, better health care and living conditions for all children.
We are pro-life that way.
And how, exactly, has brother Obama trespassed against you?
I accept you as my brother, Eric. You are a Christian. You believe in Jesus and have said you hope to follow in his steps by God's Grace. I don't always agree with you, but I have no reason to reject you as my brother in Christ.
What biblical basis would I possibly have for making you "prove" to me that you're "Christian-enough" to be okay to fellowship with? Yes, you do have some beliefs that strike me as not Christ-centered or that even seem to go against the teachings of Jesus. But we're not perfect.
I'm not expecting you to get it right in every regards in order for you to be my brother. If God doesn't expect me to be right in every circumstance and belief, why would I dare to expect you to have to be right (by MY way of thinking) on each and every belief?
Or, to repeat the words of James,
Do not speak evil of one another, brothers. Whoever speaks evil of a brother or judges his brother speaks evil of the law and judges the law. If you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
The proof is in the pudding, as they say. Or rather, in the fruit he bears. And I've seen nothing thus far I'd like to sink my teeth into.
James says:
Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show his works by a good life in the humility that comes from wisdom.
But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth.
Wisdom of this kind does not come down from above but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every foul practice.
But the wisdom from above is first of all pure, then peaceable, gentle, compliant, full of mercy and good fruits, without inconstancy or insincerity. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace for those who cultivate peace.
Where, in Obama's life do you see anything that doesn't reflect the fruit shown above? Peaceable, gentle, full of mercy, sincere, cultivating peace?
You're saying "because of abortion."
But that means that because Obama thinks the abortion issue is a tough medical issue, and therefore doesn't think it should be criminalized but instead, we should seek to help people to not feel the need for "wrongful" abortions - these ARE reasons of compassion, of peacemaking, of mercy.
Now you may think he's wrong - that there would be even GREATER mercy shown if he outlawed abortion thereby saving the lives of aborted children. I understand that. But the thing is: The operative reasoning in both Obama's and your position is one of mercy and grace.
So, you may think he and I have reached the wrong conclusion, we have not done so out of a rejection, but rather out of an embrace of Christian belief.
No?
You speak as though you know this man, but you don't. You only know what you see, what he shows of himself, what the media allows you to see. You assume wrongly that because he claims to be Christian that he is.
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
--I John 4:1
"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock."
--Acts 20:29
The entire book of Jude is an admonition to beware.
You support the man because you like what he says, yet you ignore what he does, and you're not alone in this. That does not bode well for this nation.
How you can rationalize murder, and his support for murder is no small wonder to me. But then you don't care about the unborn; any more than you do Iraqi children, or Rwandan children, let alone American children. The sanctity of life means nothing to you. It is just a cloak you put on when you enter the public, a show you perform. That's what I see; knowing you value the life in the womb less that you do the life out of the womb; as a matter of geography.
You believe Obama, because you like his message of change. That's fine. But you like the message so much that you're willing to ignore all the underlying nastiness that comes with him... his corrupt views on life.
We all like sheep have gone astray. That includes Obama. But you put him on a pedestal; the paragon of our present political aspirations.
But sorry. That would-be emperor has no spiritual clothes. And I'm not really surprised you can't see it. Saddened, yes, but not surprised.
I'm interested to hear what Obama has done to accomplish this (encouraging the counter-productive disbursement of condoms to teens doesn't count).
What does he do to support crisis pregnancy centers, for example?
I don't see how keeping partial birth abortion legal and opposing the born alive infant protection act display his compassion and mercy.
If abortions don't kill an innocent human being then they are a cost effective method of birth control. If they are so much safer than pregnancy (an oft repeated lie of the left) then they will improve women's health. So why try to reduce them? Why would they ever be considered "wrong?"
However, if abortions do kill innocent human beings, then there is NO EXCUSE for them to be legal.
No, I don't. But I know myself. I know hundreds of others who define themselves as Pro-Life and yet who do not want to criminalize abortion. I see no reason why not to give Obama the benefit of the doubt that he is similar to all the others who think as I do.
He has done absolutely nothing to make me think that he thinks abortions are great things and everyone should really go out and have one 'cause, you know, killing babies is great. Just great.
You appear to operate under the assumption that if you don't know a person or their reasoning, then it's best to assume that they are evil agents of destruction working for the devil.
I operate under the assumption that we are all humans, brothers and sisters on this planet, striving to do the best we can. And sometimes we get it wrong in one area or another. And when we do, it's perfectly fine for someone to point that out to us. But it a mistake, not a deliberate action of evil most of the time. Most of the time, people aren't looking for what good evil act can I do.
Otherwise, you would never support killing children in Iraq or failing to take care of children that leads to their deaths or diminished lives.
But I don't reject your Christianity because you are mistaken. I reject your mistake, not you.
And that's the last time I'm saying it, since you just ignore it and go on to say, "Yes, but Obama is evil and you are a fool to think he's anything else."
We just have two different ways of dealing with human sin. You want to beat people to death with it and I recognize it as part of the human condition that Eric and Neil and Obama and myself all share in common.
To hell with your way of thinking (and I mean that quite literally).
Praise God for God's amazing grace and that God does not seek to destroy the poor sinner the way that some do.
"God does not seek to destroy the poor sinner the way that some do."
True. He's not willing that ANY perish. Yet here's what the Lord said to Ezekiel...
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die."
For those who cannot see the sin in abortion, and defend it at every turn, why would they ever seek to repent? And yet without Christ, they are without hope.
I question Obama's understanding of what it means to stand against sin. He compromises far too much for the sake of what HE thinks is right.
He and you are too permissive of sin.
You don't understand the teaching of Jesus as well as you think you do.
It doesn't look to me, actually, like you know the teachings of Jesus at all. You've got the teachings of what people say *about* Jesus down pat, as long as it's all filtered through a dispensationalist lens.
Yes, they often DID call Jesus and the early believers "evil," and "wicked," they often DID twist Jesus' words and spread lies about Him. The pharisees and sadduccees and powers that be did all of that to Jesus and his followers.
Besides those hypocrites, who ELSE is going around twisting words of believers and accusing them of evil.
Hmmm...
"I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it." --Morpheus, [apocryphal lesson on free will and destiny]
I'll leave comments open though. If anything interesting comes up, I'll chime in.
He also voted against:
*prohibiting the early release of sex offenders
*extra penalties for gang activities
*adult prosecution for kids using guns on school property
*pornography filters in schools
*having trouble making students serve suspensions before transferring
Those are the few things he actually voted on that I find troubling. Never heard him offer alternatives to any of the above, so I'd say that as it stands, there's some embarrassing policies of his own to consider before crowning him Saint Barry.
One more thing regarding the Born Alive Act: the authors took great pains to insure that protecting the lives of babies who survive the murder attempt would not in any way interfere with the poorly crafted and anti-Constitutional Roe v Wade decision.
A vote for Barry is an Obamanation.
Myth: Obama has the experience needed to be president
Truth: Obama decided to run for President after only 2 years as a US senator.. so, exactly 1/3 of his senate experience has been spent running for president. Additionally, in his short stint as a state senator, he spent much of that time trying to get elected to the US Congress, which might explain why he voted present 130 times as state senator, including a bill to prohibit sex-related shops from opening near schools or places of worship. The bill did not get the required three-fifths majority, so it did not pass.
Myth: Obama voted against Iraq war
Truth: He was not a US senator at the time, and yet he has the audacity to attack Hillary for actually trusting the official reports to the Senate from the US intelligence community which undeniably stated as fact that Saddam Hussein had WMD’s. Shame on you Obama!
Myth: Obama & Clinton have the same voting record
Truth: Since 1/1/07, Obama & Clinton have differed 37 times on important votes. Out of those 37 votes, 100% of them were because Obama chose NOT TO VOTE, which is reminiscent of his "present" votes as a state senator.
Myth: Only Obama can win in the Fall
Truth: Most of the independents and republicans voting in the democratic primaries for Obama are just trying to keep Hillary from getting the nomination so that they can turn around and vote for a republican in the fall. That's subjective, I know, but how else to you account for such an overwhelming turnout for Barack? Not all his "supporters" are registered Democrats; the numbers just do not bear this out.
Myth: Bill & Hillary Clinton are racist.
Truth: This is completely absurd, yet Obama has managed to get over 80% of blacks to vote for him since spreading this lie, which has tilted the scales to his advantage as whites are voting their conscience and blacks are voting for him because of the color of his skin. Shame on you again Obama! Bill & Hillary fought hard to help poor people including blacks for most of their extensive careers. Bill Clinton was dubbed the first black president for crying out loud!
Myth: Obama’s health care is good for people with low income
Truth: Poor people will still have to choose between health insurance and paying rent or putting food on the table since his plan does not cover everybody. Hillary’s plan does cover EVERYBODY, and only people who can pay for it are expected to pay.
And I can't believe I'm defending the Clintons! Someone please pinch me!!!
Does anyone believe that a black man doing as well as Barack is doing is evidence that "race" is now a dead issue in this nation? Is it not fair to say that Blacks who vote for Obama simply because he's black is any less racist that Whites who vote against him because he's black? This race for the Democrat nomination is ALL about race, and little about substance... at least on Barack's side of the street.
Hillary, at least, has substance. Barack is little more than a jar of marshmallow fluff.
Yeah! Damn that strong economy! Damn that low unemployment rate! Damn that absence of terrorist attacks on our soil! And can you believe there are two more Middle Eastern countries holding free elections? And don't get me started on two new Supreme Court Justices that actually know what their duties are in that position!!
Yes, he would.
And y'all would say something like ... the only thing in yer list that has anything to do with who, or which party, is president is the last one ...
Sheesh. That's the way the game is played, y'all.
Hey, "Don't shine on me" -- never heard that. ??
I don't think I ever said such a thing. I say that certainty and faith are incompatible. I say that basing certainty on knowledge of the Bible is foolhardy. I say I am sure of my relationship with God through Christ because of my relationship with God through Christ, which is the very GIST of the Bible, but that anyone who claims very much in the way of detailed doctrine is just making crap up.
No, I'm sure of one or two or three things that matter. And most of the doctrinal things you dwell on so much just don't matter.
How embarrasskin'!