For those of you who missed it, Rush Limbaugh gave a brilliant monologue Tuesday that used up the entire first hour. Some won't spend the time required to read through it all and that's fine with me. For the most part this post is for me.
Though the link above is to Rush's website, I have also saved a copy of the transcript for the entire first hour over at the Pocket Mumbles Library.
For myself, this man never ceases to amaze me. He is almost always right [98.5% of the time], and try as they might, liberals don't stand a chance in an honest debate with him-- even with half his brain tied behind his back, just to make it fair!
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The Dems DO need to do a better job of giving an actual alternative other than, "Vote for us. We're not as bad as them." And they would do better if they did so, I'd suggest.
But it is also true that the Republicans in power have so screwed things up that it will be difficult for them not to lose.
So?
I don't get anyone's enchantment with Rush. I used to listen to him pretty regularly back in the Bush years. I thought at first he was a spoof on conservatives. Even when I figured out he was serious, I thought he was a little funny.
Now I see him for a mere buffoon, blowhard and hypocrite. Certainly not anyone to be taken especially seriously.
Credibilty? Umm....huh-uh.
You have a problem with that, then go mock yerself.
Yeah, okay, whatever.
Prayers for Cindy Sheehan would obviously make bigger headlines for the news outfit than prayers for "our soldiers, the wounded, dead and dying in Iraq."
What I'd like to know is the context behind the vigil itself, and if support for Sheehan transcends the unassailable reasoning behind every worthy prayer. In other words, what political agenda does the congregation support, if any? And does a particular political ideology the motivation for the vigil?
I can't condemn anyone, or any group of someones, who prays for another someone or group of someones. I can, however, question their motivation.
And at present I choose not to.
Thank you, EL, for coming to my defense. The only "political agenda" was our quest to be faithful to Christ, who taught us to Love our enemies.
Our church, I would guess practically to a person, our opposed to Bush's policies and want him out of office. Just as many of us were opposed to much of Clinton's policies and wanted him out of office.
This was a prayer vigil for the dying in Iraq. It was political inasmuch as we'd like to see our policies change and because we're doing our part to be a Christian voice opposed to the war.
But I'm hoping that no one here is of the opinion that Christians ought to be silent in regards to a nation's policies.
Make of that what you will.
And then we lit candles and prayed silently.
It was organized by MOVEON.ORG, for crying out loud!
Here's the quote from the linked piece:
" The vigil was one of more than 1,000 organized by MoveOn.Org."
Does that answer your question, EL?
A church member saw that there was a nationwide prayer vigil happening and suggested we participate. Being concerned about the dying happening in Iraq by our children and theirs, and being concerned about the greater ramifications of what we perceive to be an immoral and probably illegal war, we collectively agreed to take it to our God in prayer.
You have a problem with nationwide prayer vigils, Daddio? You really seem to be straining at gnats here, dude.
The fact that MoveOn sponsored the event-- whatever Dan's objections, since the media was given the impression that Dan's congregation was connected to that concerted prayer vigil --makes, to my mind, the whole event suspect. Perhaps Sheehan's name wasn't mentioned, perhaps Dan just doesn't 'recall' hearing her name mentioned, but that hardly matters; praying for the mother of a dead soldier is hardly an act of vanity (uselessness) or sinful. But again, motivation is key.
The simple fact that MoveOn called for the vigil, and thousands of congregations answered that call, is disturbing to me because:
a) MoveOn is a political Action Group
b) MoveOn does not support the things of God; i.e., Their support of the Democratic and Liberal agenda which includes robbing from the rich to feed the government, offering dribs and drabs to the poor; Abortion, a major plank in the Democratic platform... to name but two, and those two are enough for me.
c) MoveOn has zero spiritual credibility: their agenda is Godless, and many statements in print, on air, and on the internet by coutless MoveOn proselytes, demonstrates their own need for God in their hearts. MoveOn should call for an Organizational revival before they ever attempt a national prayer vigil.
What I find most shocking about the event [and I'm simply being honest here. No attempt at smarmy-ness] is the fact that the congregation in question heeded the call of MoveOn. The same group who routinely castigates anyone who claims faith in God-- accept those who are loyal to MoveOn's tenets. MoveOn sounds a lot like a cult, and a Godless one at that.
Also... What's the point in silent prayer? The excuse of the 'prayer closet' doesn't work here. Nor does the admonishment of Jesus from his parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector. The vigil was to be, by design, a public petition to God.
"Our church, I would guess practically to a person, our oppos[ition] to Bush's policies and [our desire to see] him out of office."
No mention of praying FOR the president; that God might grant him wisdom, or that his decisions would bear good fruit. This may have occurred, but it is clear from your statement, Dan, that what was deemed most important-- at least to you, and most worthy of mention in your comment --was the organized opposition to the president; the leader ordained of God to lead this nation, at this time [because all leaders are ordained of God, good or otherwise, to serve His purpose], and your desire to see him removed; a desire in which, honestly, I see nothing wrong accept in terms of ommission as well as, again, motivation-- what was NOT prayed for, in regard to the president and his policies?
I won't question a congregation who gathers to pray, but I most certainly will question a congregation's motivation for prayer. That prayer vigil should not have been silent. It should have been loud.
To some of your other points:
"The same group who routinely castigates anyone who claims faith in God"
Most of what you've said is simply wrong. MoveOn demonstrably does not castigate anyone who claims faith in God. They have a problem with Bush's type of christianity. They support the churches that agree with them that this war is immoral.
Much else of what you've said about MoveOn is a matter of spiritual opinion. I find their opinions to be often right on, biblically and spiritually-speaking. If you'd care to provide some of the "many" statements they've made that prove they're Godless, feel free. I don't know of any.
Which is not to say that I think that they are a faith-based movement at all. They are a political movement with which I often agree. We heeded not their call but God's to pray. We wisely did it in conjunction with the MoveOn effort because our church believes in wise, Godly Direct Action.
One church holding a prayer vigil, does well - it prays for the dying. Many churches and faith groups holding a prayer vigil does even better - they pray for the dying AND they help hold our leaders accountable. Wise. Godly. Effective.
Finally, we do pray for our president. We pray that he find some wisdom. That he repent for his sinful ways. That he stop turning his back on God. That he be removed from office. ALL of this IS praying for him.
What I think it comes down to, though, is that you find MoveOn to be unGodly and we find them to be a helpful partner in our efforts to take Godly actions. A difference of opinion that we seem unable to resolve.
And yet they opposed, quite nastily, George W. Bush in the last election, supporting instead John Kerry who supports a woman's right to choose, the homosexual agenda, and higher taxes.
"They have a problem with Bush's type of christianity."
Which is the crux of my whole argument against MoveOn... They're a political action committee who opposes a brand of Christianity. Considering MoveOn's mission and reason for being has nothing to do with God, their objection to Bush's 'brand' of Christianity is ridiculous especially since MoveOn, as a collective, knows nothing of what REAL christianity should look like, as evidenced by their wholehearted support of Democratic and Liberal political agendas.
"We pray that he find some wisdom. That he repent for his sinful ways. That he stop turning his back on God. That he be removed from office. ALL of this IS praying for him."
That he 'find' wisdom? Not that he be 'granted' wisdom? That he repent of his sinful ways? Fair enough, we're ALL sinners, but your prayer suggests a belief that his woefully off base, spiritually. That he be removed from office? All this is praying FOR him? You advocate impeachment then, since you're not willing to wait for the next presidential election, which means you buy into tripe MoveOn.org those they support offers as enlightened discourse.
"What I think it comes down to, though, is that you find MoveOn to be unGodly and we find them to be a helpful partner in our efforts to take Godly actions."
You're right, I DO find MoveOn to be unGodly, and it most certainly is. But the fact that you consider them a helpful partner in your efforts to take Godly actions... What confusion! That's like asking Satan to bow his head and pray with you that sinners might be saved!
Please take this in the spirit in which I'm giving it-- Genuine concern for you and your congregation...
"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you..."
--2 Corinthians 14-17
As to your first question: "Not sure that I get your last point. It should have been loud?"
"Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet..."
--Isaiah 58:1
In light of that, when people merely bow their heads in silence, how many are looking about, thinking of what must be done first thing in morning, where will time be found to pay the bills, let alone where will the money come from... I don't know about your church, but where I go, when everyone stands to pray, everyone prays aloud. I don't mention this to say 'my church is better than your church', but rather, to illustrate that when the entire congregation is actively praying aloud, it is evident that the minds of the people are on the prayer and not other concerns. It is always best to pray aloud in such situations. You've all come together to worship God... together, in one accord. Church is not the place to retreat to one's prayer closet. Accept at the altar, when your prayers between you and Father.
Prayer vigils should be loud in that every voice should be raised; if not in volume then in the sense that every tongue is either actively giving praise to God, or asking God to move on behalf of requests, needs, and earnest Godly desires.
No, thanks. I'll stick to the Bible and God's Spirit for revelation. And nowhere in the Bible does it say there is only one way to pray.
I don't have time to respond further right now. Just one last thing. You said:
"They're a political action committee who opposes a brand of Christianity."
Suffice to say that YOU, too, oppose a specific brand of Christianity: You seem to have set your face against me and my brothers and sisters in Christ. So they're not doing anything that you're not doing too.
How's your opposition to my church and christians like us different than their opposition to Bush?
The admonition of "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers..." stands, however. But please note I did not intend to say I personally stand against you or your church, only that your church should take tremendous care as to which organizations with whom it aligns itself. And not just your church... all churches, to include my own. We are to be separate from the unbeliever, called out from among them, and we should not align ourselves with them. The old adage, 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' has no place here. Enemies of God, however close their stated purposes align with our own, are still enemies of God.
And as I feel Bush certainly is. In seeking to align yourself with God, you find some comradery and support, it seems, from the Rushes and the Bushes.
I find only enmity there towards God and, in aligning myself with God, find more commonality with MoveOn. Ya got to choose and make your moves.
LOL!
Hmmm...I thought I had made another comment way back there somewhere...
It's quite obvious that your faith is molded by your political philosophy.
You can have the honor if you like.
"you know we held a prayer vigil for our soldiers, the wounded, dead and dying in Iraq...
The only "political agenda" was our quest to be faithful to Christ, who taught us to Love our enemies. " (our soldiers, the wounded, dead and dying in Iraq.)
"Our church, I would guess practically to a person, our opposed to Bush's policies and want him out of office."
Are you praying for President Bush, Dan?
Honestly, earnestly, sincerely PRAYING TO GOD for President Bush's well being, and for God's Omniscient guidance and Leadership for the President?
President Bush has stated that he looks to his Lord and Savior for Divine Leadership and Guidance, for which he has been roundly criticized by the people who sound an awful lot like you.
If you are indeed doing your Christian Duty, and Praying for Gad's Guidance for the President, and he is looking to God for Guidance, then why do you continue to question him? (Or Him, as the case may be?)
Oh please! Hitler said he was looking to God for guidance, too. Saying your looking to God for guidance doesn't bear much weight when you're ignoring what Jesus says directly.